Australian Atheists Forum

two dogs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:16 amSomewhere between 34 to 78 years after Jesus ascended into heaven (wherever the fuck that is) is "soon"?!

Have you any idea how unreliable eyewitness testimony can be due to the malleability of memory, even after a short period of time? If not, I recommended reading some of the books/articles on that subject by psychologist Elizabeth Loftus

A quick Google search shows Herodotus is the most famous early Historian, some say the first. His main works were about events 70 to 20 years before he wrote about them. Looking at the greatest modern historians I notice Shelby Foote is mentioned. He lived until 2005 and his celebrated work was bout the American Civil War. By definition all history is written after the event.
Cheers Barry

Irrev-Black wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:18 amPerhaps somebody could ask somebody else some direct questions, and the other party could give some direct answers, based on verifiable fact.

I think that we may come to some understanding if this was to happen.

Hi Rev,
Good point. I’ll ask again , how did the world begin? My answer seems to be universally denied on this forum, surprise surprise….
The burden of proof is not on me. You can’t just say prove it’s God, and not take responsibility for your own ignorance and lack of an explanation.
Cheers Barry

two dogs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 4:49 am"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

“What isn’t asserted, because of no evidence i.e. how the world began from nothing, can be dismissed”
Quote from BarryK evangelist

joele wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:51 amOf course it isn't (always) tyranny to have laws, but those laws IMHO should be based humanitarian values and on the best available knowledge of today and not the frozen in time knowledge of 2000 years ago.

I agree
Cheers Barry

two dogs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:28 amArgument from personal incredulity!

Incredulity is believing the world happened by cheers Barry

Irrev-Black wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:47 pmI'd also like to know how BarryK reconciles that villainous Old Testament, dick-obsessed, despot with New Testament Jesus and the nicey-nicey heavenly father who's content to sit back and say he's well pleased with how sonny-boy is doing.

Hi Rev
I don’t agree with your comment about the OT God. Did we read the same book? Or was your book about the life of Donald Trump?
Cheers Barry

Barryk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:42 pm Good point. I’ll ask again , how did the world begin? My answer seems to be universally denied on this forum, surprise surprise….
The burden of proof is not on me. You can’t just say prove it’s God, and not take responsibility for your own ignorance and lack of an explanation.

I offered some other ideas, you ignored them, though I admit they are far more complex than "god done it".

I explained how "I don't know" is an honest answer, two dogs mentioned the Argument from Incredulity which is what you are doing..

But really you have to understand you sound like this..

Viking 1 - Why is there lightening?

Viking 2 - I am not sure, maybe it is x or y, but I don't really know..

Viking 1 - I think it is Thor striking his hammer as our ancestors wrote down.

Viking 2 - I don't think that sounds real, do you have any proof of that.

Viking 1 - Where does it come from? My answer is being denied, surprise, surprise. The burden of proof is not on me, you can't just say prove Thor and not take responsibility for your ignorance and lack of explanation.

That is really all I can hear at this point, the lack of an alternative explanation does NOT take away your burden of proof for your own (despite the fact I provided some others and your ignored them). Though I honestly offered alternatives as just possibilities, I don't claim them to be true/fact, as you do (whilst still denying your burden of proof).

Barryk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:38 pm

two dogs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:16 amSomewhere between 34 to 78 years after Jesus ascended into heaven (wherever the fuck that is) is "soon"?!

Have you any idea how unreliable eyewitness testimony can be due to the malleability of memory, even after a short period of time? If not, I recommended reading some of the books/articles on that subject by psychologist Elizabeth Loftus

A quick Google search shows Herodotus is the most famous early Historian, some say the first. His main works were about events 70 to 20 years before he wrote about them. Looking at the greatest modern historians I notice Shelby Foote is mentioned. He lived until 2005 and his celebrated work was bout the American Civil War. By definition all history is written after the event.
Cheers Barry

FFS, so now the canonical gospels are works of historians (people who study and write about the fuckin' past) rather than eye-witness accounts? Try to keep your story straight!

two dogs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 3:03 pmFFS, so now the canonical gospels are works of historians (people who study and write about the fuckin' past) rather than eye-witness accounts? Try to keep your story straight!

Hi 2 dogs, saying “fuckin” hardly strengthens your comments. You are all over the place. Luke and Mark were not eye witnesses, but they used eye witness accounts. John and Matthew may not have been the actual apostles, but writers who used them as references.

But the most important question is: Does God exist? If yes, Jesus is an easy gig. So if your answer is no, how did the world begin?

Cheers Barry

Barryk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 3:10 pm

two dogs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 3:03 pmFFS, so now the canonical gospels are works of historians (people who study and write about the fuckin' past) rather than eye-witness accounts? Try to keep your story straight!

Hi 2 dogs, saying “fuckin” hardly strengthens your comments.
...

For what it's worth, I write "fuckin'" not "fuckin", as the use of the apostrophe is grammatically important to me to indicate my intended elision of the ending "g". And that's also how I say it (quite often) in real life.

My proclivity for swearing (whatever that is) reminds me of my dad berating me when I was in my teens with "every second bloody word that comes out of your mouth is 'bloody'".