Vehicle Size Creep

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stevebrooks
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Re: Vehicle Size Creep

Post by stevebrooks »

You know, interestingly, the other day I saw an article saying EV's were actually worse than ICE cars for pollution.....now this is where we know they are clutching at straws.....because the increased weight of EV's increased tire wear and caused emissions that were worse than the ones emitted from a car tailpipe.
Comparative studies between popular electric and hybrid vehicles further underscore this concern. In March, Emissions Analytics released a study that compared the Tesla Model Y, the top-selling EV in the US, with the similarly-sized hybrid Kia Niro. The experts found that the Tesla produced 26 percent more tire emissions than the Kia.
https://www.earth.com/news/hidden-costs ... pollution/

Now this was spat out verbatim on news.com.au as if was a fait accompli, that EV's produced more emissions from the tires than ICE vehicles produced from the tailpipe due to required pollution reduction devices used on ICE vehicles. ICE vehicles of course also produce pollution from tires and larger ones are heavier and of course create more pollution, so vehicle size creep is a factor here, but one thing that was neglected on the news.com.au article was the simple fact that we don't, you know, have stuff like fucking catalytic convertors to reduce tailpipe emissions, thus rendering the entire argument utterly pointless for Australian consumption! What we have from ICE vehicles is tire pollution AND tailpipe pollution

Now lets consider other stuff, has anyone ever heard this complaint about tires in any media previous to EV's starting to become popular, and suddenly it's headline material? Clutching at straws for the win. Oh I don't disagree it's a problem, maybe lets do something about it, but it's not the huge EV killer it's being presented at. More other stuff, sure ICE vehicles may produce less pollution from the exhaust in countries that actually fucking have emissions controls and standards, Australia simply hasn't given a shit about that for a hundred years, but what about all the damage and pollution caused by digging up rare metal to make catalytic convertors? Why isn't that part of the equation, I mean they are keen to lambast EV technology for all the mining that's required for batteries!

Still more other stuff, what about all the tire pollution caused by having fucking huge petrol tankers running to every petrol station every day while the EV car sits at home charging? Surely that should be added on as part of the ICE car tire pollution problem and not just ignored as inconvenient? It's remarkable how ICE vehicle proponents can pick the the few things about EV's which could be twisted into anti-EV arguments while ignoring everything about ICE vehicles that make such arguments moot, if not verging on the silly. We can fix tires, we can't fix the problems caused by ICE industry because they are fucking HUGE!
Wrenn
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Re: Vehicle Size Creep

Post by Wrenn »

Obviously an EV fear mongering piece that can be ignored.

Slight devils advocate, 2 minutes 20 seconds of skimming a random reddit thread proves (I am the best at science!) that EV's wear out tires more often, ranging from 9000 miles to 35,000 miles per tire set, while non EV's range from 35-70k miles. EV's are heavier but with ludicrous acceleration so are fun to drive fast probably wearing out tires more.

On the other hand, batteries seem to still be on a increasing curve in terms of energy/weight ratio and there are tons of new promising battery designs being researched. Also more charging stations will reduce the need for high range (thus heavy batteries).
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stylofone
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Re: Vehicle Size Creep

Post by stylofone »

stevebrooks wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:51 pmYou know, interestingly, the other day I saw an article
Your summary about the sheer stupidity of the argument (effectively pretending ICE cars don't have tyres and brakes) is spot on.

I also note the machinery of misinformation. It appears the research about particulate pollution is real and was reported in the Guardian in 2022. The bullshit about EVs being worse than ICE cars seems to have been confected in the Murdoch Press this year (Wall Street Journal), and then recycled by another Murdoch rag, the NY Post, which cited the social media reaction to the WSJ article as the thing that made it newsworthy. It's like Andrew Bolt interviewing Rowan Dean, typical RWNJ circle-jerk. It was duly regurgitated by news.com.au

It appears to me that the article you posted is from an AI generated website, there is a plague of them at the moment, I've seen them for technology reviews, music and others, they are like a virus on the internet. Now we have machine-generated bullshit, it doesn't even have to be written by real humans. Oh brave new world!

EDIT: some more recent analysis from teh graun:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... akes-tyres
I can feel it
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pipbarber
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Re: Vehicle Size Creep

Post by pipbarber »

Irrev-Black wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:52 pm Yarra goes all Parisian!
An inner-Melbourne council could become the first municipality in Australia to increase parking fees for so-called truckzilla twin-cab utes and large SUVs, due to concerns about their safety and environmental impact.

Yarra City Council – which includes Fitzroy, Richmond and Collingwood – will on Tuesday debate a motion from Greens councillor Sophie Wade asking the council to investigate ways to discourage large and heavy vehicles on Yarra’s streets, including “proportionate parking fees based on a
vehicle’s size”.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 5fazj.html
That's my council. Get it done!!
'The ultimate, hidden truth of the world is that it is something that we make, and could just as easily make differently.' David Graeber
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stylofone
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Re: Vehicle Size Creep

Post by stylofone »

Yesterday in the supermarket car park there was a Hilux with its arse hanging out on the left, and a Dodge RAM on the right, forcing me to do a four-point turn to park next to the latter. I detest these monsters. I also don't understand the appeal. It's bad enough driving around them in my Corolla (which I think of as being a medium to large car), but to drive one of those behemoths through spaces not designed for their size is surely annoying and stressful.
I can feel it
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Irrev-Black
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Re: Vehicle Size Creep

Post by Irrev-Black »

Damn all of the traffics!
simonvarwell@mastodon.scot
MostlyTato@mstdn.social
Simon Varwell @simonvarwell@mastodon.scot

This is genuinely hilarious. UKGov commissions a report to demonstrate how awful Low-Traffic Neighbourhoods are. Report comes back praising them so report is buried.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... unak-finds
https://kolektiva.social/@simonvarwell@ ... 9648274132
Greedy fuckers cannot self-regulate.
Prove me wrong.
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Irrev-Black
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Re: Vehicle Size Creep

Post by Irrev-Black »

stylofone wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:47 am Yesterday in the supermarket car park there was a Hilux with its arse hanging out on the left, and a Dodge RAM on the right, forcing me to do a four-point turn to park next to the latter. I detest these monsters. I also don't understand the appeal.

(SNIP)
Herself said (and I have no data to back her up, but it sounds sensible) that some of the appeal may be that the land-barge driver sits high in traffic, and can see a little further, while looking down on the peons.
Greedy fuckers cannot self-regulate.
Prove me wrong.
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Irrev-Black
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Re: Vehicle Size Creep

Post by Irrev-Black »

Not just size... numbers!

https://bne.social/@Chloeg@mastodon.art ... 1681743780
Chloeg@mastodon.art
Chloe Gilbert
@Chloeg@mastodon.art

Not helping my mood: The man who lives in the house opposite with his spouse have 4 cars and a camper van between them. My sums make that 2.5 cars each. They actually only ever drive around in one, the others are like chess pieces that they use to defend the kerb space outside their house.
Greedy fuckers cannot self-regulate.
Prove me wrong.
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joele
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Re: Vehicle Size Creep

Post by joele »

Wrenn wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:59 amSlight devils advocate, 2 minutes 20 seconds of skimming a random reddit thread proves (I am the best at science!) that EV's wear out tires more often, ranging from 9000 miles to 35,000 miles per tire set, while non EV's range from 35-70k miles.
Brakes are the opposite though as almost all EVs use regenerative breaking which means brake pads last considerably longer.
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stevebrooks
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Re: Vehicle Size Creep

Post by stevebrooks »

joele wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:23 am
Wrenn wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:59 amSlight devils advocate, 2 minutes 20 seconds of skimming a random reddit thread proves (I am the best at science!) that EV's wear out tires more often, ranging from 9000 miles to 35,000 miles per tire set, while non EV's range from 35-70k miles.
Brakes are the opposite though as almost all EVs use regenerative breaking which means brake pads last considerably longer.
Interestingly some EV's are going back to drum brakes, which are cheaper and easier to manufacture than disk brakes and less subject to environmental degradation due to water and etc, this makes them better for regenerate braking EV's since far less use means disk brakes tend to degrade faster than when used on ICE vehicles where the brakes are used much more often;
Electric Vehicles in particular can benefit from drum brake technology due to the vehicle onboarded electrical power recuperation systems that are effectively retarding the vehicle during normal driving conditions to the extent that the brakes are rarely used, except for the instant or emergency case. Due to the infrequent usage of the traditional disc brake system, they become more susceptible to corrosion (rust film) buildup, that may cause less of a braking force after an extended time of non-actuation, however they must be 100% instantly available when required.

The drum brake technology is completely enclosed within a housing system that offers protection to the mechanical mechanism and brake surfaces against corrosive elements such as rain and salts. The enclosed housing system of the drum brake allows the internal friction shoe, pully and springs to operate reliably and perform to the required and relevant residual braking torque force application, and further reliability for the instant and emergency case application.
https://www.continental.com/en/press/st ... rum-brake/
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