Australian Atheists Forum

All good, it wasn't an attack on you, just suggesting why the police were doing that. I also heard the police commissioner saying he hoped they wouldn't use said powers. But they wanted them in case violence (or calls for violence) did break out, which it may well, but I hope it doesn't, they should have the absolute right to protest the Israeli governments many terrible actions.

Maybe i am a bit sensitive on this topic as even as a non zionist atheist i am still seen as a 'jew' by those who see it as a race (experienced that enough in my life). I found it interesting that the guardian article when they mention the protests at opera house mentioned "fuck the Jews" but avoided the "gas' quote. It felt to me like they were trying to downplay what happrned. They also said a "few individuals" in one report i read which from the audio felt like another downplaying.

I am understanding of both "sides" marching but that kind of shit is 100% unacceptable, as are synagogue/school-attacks and individual acts of violence in Australia. BOTH sides in Australia have to avoid violence as there is enough violence there, don't bring it here.

I heard there was unacceptable language at the pro Israel rally in New York, I don't have the audio but heard 2nd hand it was stuff like "wipe them out" referring to Gaza. I condemn that in the same terms, unequivocally unacceptable and that rally should have also been shutdown IMHO.

There's a thing about evil fighting evil. (One can think of it as increasing entropy). So pulling ourselves up out of the binary either or quagmire is important.

However the evil of the colonial project is unbridled, and apparently not only untouched, but accelerated, fed, nourished, supported, self-justified, by the Saturday massacre. Netanyahu's 2019 call for financial support to Hamas is certainly in line with the view that the cynics of the zionist project actually wanted this kind of thing. How could they engage in such large scale annhialation of Palestinians over the past couple of years without expecting such a response. It may seem conspiratorial thinking, but its only logic, even if not thought through completely by them. Crowds after all do behave in their own way.

Netenyahu is a wannabe far right dictator, or maybe he is already there?

He smashed the judiciary in Israel recently, so his government has supreme power, important step in the dictator handbook..

Reports also in israeli papers that he was personally and directly called by the Egyptian defence minister (who has confirmed the call) and told this was about to happen. He dismissed the claims and took zero action and now denies the phone call took place. Also reports of him ignoring reports of hamas invasion training exercises in weeks leading up to this.

I honestly feel there is a good chance he simply let it happen as it supports his personal needs (maintain and expand his power) and even Israeli lives mean very little to him.

One recalls Hitler at the end wanted to destroy Germany with himself. Before getting there cynical disposal of (also German) lives was nothing towards his ambitions. I had the displeasure yesterday to see footage of so called paster John Hagee discussing his apocalypse rapture plan to his flock of human sheep (white and black sheep too), and then also had Benjamin Netanyahu speak to the flock by AVL. It was like God almighty coming through the line.

It's a complicated set of occurrences, and it's all too easy to attribute motives and fuck up, as this more trivial example shows.

Police aren't all pro one thing or the other.

Sometimes their inaction is remarkable.

Irrev-Black wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:27 pmPolice aren't all pro one thing or the other.

No, they like their white supremacist group, there was one cop they were giving a high five to after they did their little march in front of parliament. They ended up pulling that cop off the line as counter protesters (rightly) wouldn't stop heckling him.

Irrev-Black wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:27 pmPolice aren't all pro one thing or the other.

Sometimes their inaction is remarkable.

I understand that most people instinctively love peace and don't want trouble. This normally works out just fine, so I can understand that there might be a sort of "stunned mullet" response when a situation arises. If you are ready for it, it is easier to change tactics. So plan for it and be ready to switch modes. If those neo-Nazi turds stink out my train station, then the time has come to fight. It doesn't have to be violence, just stand up and scream at the top of your voice one centimetre from their balaclavas: "murderers, evil, scumbags. Stop them before they start killing babies. They are hate-mongers, Nazis, criminals. Police stop them, they are threatening everything! They want to kill us. They want to hurt us. I think they have guns. They are terrorists. It's a terrorist attack on this train. Everyone come together and stop them. Stop the Nazis, get them off. Keep them away. Guard the vulnerable! Nazis out! Nazis out!"

The broader curiosity here is that on the far right antisemitism is trumping (pun intended) support for Israel and Islamaphobic performance. This constitutes a clear split from mainstream conservatism, which is usually in step with broader fascistic political positions (if not overtly, nor methodically). Watch this space, i reckon. It will provide insight into the true political leanings of public conservatives. Watch for who takes baby steps away from support for Israel.

pipbarber wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:04 pm The broader curiosity here is that on the far right antisemitism is trumping (pun intended) support for Israel and Islamaphobic performance. This constitutes a clear split from mainstream conservatism, which is usually in step with broader fascistic political positions (if not overtly, nor methodically). Watch this space, i reckon. It will provide insight into the true political leanings of public conservatives. Watch for them taking baby steps away from support for Israel.

Haters don't have to be internally consistent. I fully expect that some will weigh in against anything to do with Palestine before going back to actively hating Jews when the time suits them.

There is consistency of a sort: they're arseholes all the way through.