Joe Biden

[pipbarber]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... -interview

He's not going to retire. He'll need to be booted and that could be so ugly they'll lose anyway. Oh my fucking gawd, how to lose an unlosable election anyone?

With friends like the Democrats who needs enemies....and all the other neat soundbites that Biden was incapable of producing during the debate.

[stevebrooks]

Look seriously, if it was all based on job performance and ability literally any Democrat should be able to beat Trump if put in that position, literally any because Trump is such an obviously bad candidate and so incapable of doing the job everyone should be voting against him. But that's not the case, it doesn't matter if he retires willingly or is booted, whoever replaces him will lose anyway, there's just to much willingness on the Republican side to grind said person into dust with false accusations and innuendo and to much gullibility on the side of many Democrats to believe it.

Biden, on the other hand has already weathered that storm and come out on the other side unbesmirched, there's simply not enough time to do that for any other candidate, they still scream "her emails" about Hillary, how do you think anyone else is going to fare? I personally don't think they have a choice but to stick with Biden at this stage, sad as it seems, it's to late.

[stylofone]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... -interview

He's not going to retire. He'll need to be booted and that could be so ugly they'll lose anyway. Oh my fucking gawd, how to lose an unlosable election anyone?

With friends like the Democrats who needs enemies....and all the other neat soundbites that Biden was incapable of producing during the debate.

Timothy Snyder's social media post could be tweaked and used as a soundbite or two.

snyder.jpg (87.68 KiB) Viewed 267 times

This written statement is more like it. It all seems less convincing when Biden mumbles it, but it is true that mumbling old fogey Biden is better than hate-filled deranged despotic old fogey Trump.

bidenharris.jpeg (199.32 KiB) Viewed 267 times

[stevebrooks]

Don't know what the Dem's are up to but they seem determined to march into the big black hole of defeat, the latest I have heard is that Kamala Harris is being put forward as Biden's replacement. Now I don't know the woman, and she is probably capable of doing the job far better than Trump, but she has no political presence other than as Biden's VP, it seems the longest of long shots to me. It seems the Rep's have laid a trap and the Dem's have walked right into it!

[pipbarber]

Seems a tad premature to be musing on obituaries perhaps, but it feels to me as though the Dems assumed that the maga movement was based on nothing and would just disappear, along with Trump, who they assumed would be dealt with in the courts...because, you know...justice matters rah rah rah! They are so out of touch it's jaw dropping, and now they're scrambling against the reality of 21st century politics.

If they stick with Biden the whole party has to go all in, surely. It's a disaster if well known Democrats and their supporters keep calling for change. It makes the party look like Biden at his worst, confused. If changing at this point is all too hard, then everyone has to shut up, but that is obviously not going to happen so...

Obviously, i don't know if it's right but i suspect they'll try and roll Biden at the DNC next month. The states are perfectly entitled to ignore the primary results and nominate whoever they want. It's not impossible to imagine a hell of a lot of backroom conversations happening right now, a coup is rife.

What a mess though. The Democrats are letting the whole world down, get it fucking together! Trump must not be president again.

[stevebrooks]

If they stick with Biden the whole party has to go all in, surely.

Yeah, and that's one of the problems the Democrats have, they believe in Democracy and free speech, so people are entitled to their own positions and opinions and to voice them. It's the old tolerance argument, you can be as tolerant as you like, but if you tolerate those who expressly intend to kill you, then you will die. If they all backed Biden and went after the Repubs the way the Repubs go after them it would be a slam dunk, but that's not the way democracy works.

Obviously, i don't know if it's right but i suspect they'll try and roll Biden at the DNC next month. The states are perfectly entitled to ignore the primary results and nominate whoever they want. It's not impossible to imagine a hell of a lot of backroom conversations happening right now, a coup is rife.

What a mess though. The Democrats are letting the whole world down, get it fucking together! Trump must not be president again.

If they do that they will probably lose, there's one thing worse than having a bad candidate, that's having no candidate, if they roll Biden they also all have to agree on the new candidate, with their current performance can you see them all agreeing on one person to take his place? I have seen many names put forward by different people, if they fracture along candidate lines that's the end for them!

[stylofone]

Timothy Snyder knows what he's talking about. The age thing is a real issue, but it is NOTHING compared to the fascism issue. Even if Biden is old and doddery, Trump is worse, a million times worse. The age issue is a trap, and I admit I have fallen into it, because you end up talking about it, when the main thing you should be talking about is that Trump is a fucking fascist. Biden could be diagnosed with terminal cancer and given 6 months to live and he would STILL be infinitely better than Trump. I've said my piece about the gerontocracy, but from now on I'm going to try to stay focused on the main issue, Trump is a danger to the human race, not just America.

It should seem odd that media calls to step down were not first directed to Trump. If we are calling for Biden to step aside because someone must stop Trump from bringing down the republic, then surely it would have made more sense to first call for Trump to step aside? (The Philadelphia Inquirer did). I know the counter-arguments: his people wouldn’t have cared, and he wouldn’t have listened. The first misses an important point. There are quite a few Americans who have not made up their minds. The second amounts to obeying in advance. If you accept that a fascist is beyond your reach, you have normalized your submission.

https://snyder.substack.com/p/fascist-froth

[pipbarber]

Timothy Snyder knows what he's talking about. The age thing is a real issue, but it is NOTHING compared to the fascism issue. Even if Biden is old and doddery, Trump is worse, a million times worse. The age issue is a trap, and I admit I have fallen into it, because you end up talking about it, when the main thing you should be talking about is that Trump is a fucking fascist. Biden could be diagnosed with terminal cancer and given 6 months to live and he would STILL be infinitely better than Trump. I've said my piece about the gerontocracy, but from now on I'm going to try to stay focused on the main issue, Trump is a danger to the human race, not just America.

https://snyder.substack.com/p/fascist-froth

I couldn't agree more but it doesn't matter what we talk about, it only matters what Americans talk about and it seems they're talking about Biden being too old instead of Trump being a fascist, an authoritarian and an existential crisis. I'm not entirely sure how it will be possible for them to shift that focus. It's all very well to say the focus is wildly inappropriate, unfair and disproportional to the threat Trump represents (all of which is true), but saying that isn't going to change the narrative now.

I think they should change, despite the risks. But if they don't do it at the conference and with a consensus on the replacement, then we're locked in and hope like hell Biden doesn't significantly fuck up (not that we're not doing that already).

I might add, i really have no special insight into US politics but i'm genuinely fearful of Trump in power again and whatever can be done to stop that from happening needs to be done, regardless of anything. It does at times feel like the Dems have bought a knife to the gunfight, i guess i'm saying perhaps its time they changed strategy.

[stevebrooks]

i guess i'm saying perhaps its time they changed strategy.

Yep, they've been playing by the unwritten rules, the Repub's are the pigeon on the chess board, just wrecking everything and doing whatever they want. The Dem's need to get serious, there are plenty of legal ways to fuck the Repub's up just like they are doing to the Dem's, but playing by the rules of yesteryear isn't cutting it these days.

[Loki]

I couldn't agree more but it doesn't matter what we talk about, it only matters what Americans talk about and it seems they're talking about Biden being too old instead of Trump being a fascist, .. .

No, not Americans, American media. You know, faux, new orc times, newsmax, media. Every CEO of a major American media company donates to Trump. Talking about Biden hitting goals and getting stuff done does not suit their agenda. Talking about the deep sliminess, criminality and incoherence that is Trump does not suit their agenda. Talking about rethuglican plans to ban contraception and teach the bible does not suit their agenda.

News media reporting the news is ancient history.

Media talks about what they think suits their agenda.

What do actual Americans think?

I suspect reading polls and watching tv won't give you an honest answer there.

This is our contribution to the world stage, allowing Murdock to grow to the point he could infest broader horizons. Yay us.