Israel

[joele]

unspeakable. and the police already indicating intimidation tactics on any show of support for Palestinian civilians in Sydney.

Was this related to the idiots chanting "gas the jews" outside the opera house?



https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -hamas-war

[Irrev-Black]

I can't protest publicly, in-person, over this matter.

I'm not being hijacked for anybody's agenda.

My sympathies are with the non-combatants killed, hurt, and displaced.

[stylofone]

I can't protest publicly, in-person, over this matter.

I'm not being hijacked for anybody's agenda.

My sympathies are with the non-combatants killed, hurt, and displaced.

With Netanyahu in charge, the Palestinian Authority enfeebled, Hamas controllng Gaza, the days when there was an effective peace process seem very distant. After the Oslo Accords, they got close. The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin was the turning point, it pretty much went downhill after that. But the idea never goes away. The only way to support the innocent is to support peace.

So if there is a public demonstration it should be a unified protest in support of peace. That sort of thing used to happen, on a large scale too. I can see a way for it to return, with the calls for Netanyahu to resign once the crisis eases. In the short term, the conflict has blown away his domestic political problems, the corruption charges and opposition to his tyrannical judicial reforms. So lots of good things need to happen. I know that doesn't seem likely given recent events, but it doesn't change the fact that the only way this ends is with a peace process, where you negotiate hard, but accept that you don't get everything you want, you don't aim to win, you aim to compromise.

[pipbarber]

As Orwell said, if you want to know if it is racist, see how it treats the women. The same here too. The question is the quantity of dead to satisfy the colonial balance of terror. Is it 10:1, 30:1, or 100:1 ???

Grimly, it's 20,000:1. 100 hostages or no food or water for 2 million.

[wadaye]

unspeakable. and the police already indicating intimidation tactics on any show of support for Palestinian civilians in Sydney.

Was this related to the idiots chanting "gas the jews" outside the opera house?

...

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -hamas-war

...[deleted as per my below post, with apologies to Joele]. The police indicated that they were only interested in supporters of Palestine per se.
And no actually I was referring to this
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-13/ ... /102972746

You see if I went out to support Palestine of course I have to preface that with a statement that I condemn the massacre. But if I go out to support Israel there is not even a space for condemning the ongoing massacre.

But you do get massacreists on both sides. Unfortunately the massacreists have the dominant narrative in the west against the Palestinians, but it is true that some so called supporters of Palestinians use it for their own anti-semitic purposes.

Then you also get it from Biden and Netanyahu against Palestinians

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023 ... -palestine

The beheaded babies tale originated with a report on Israel’s i24News site by reporter Nicole Zedeck, from her interview with Israeli reserve soldier David Ben Zion. Max Blumenthal and Alexander Rubinstein reported on October 11 that Ben Zion is a notorious radical leader in Israel’s West Bank settler movement. Among other things, he called on rampaging armed settlers earlier this year to wipe out the Palestinian village of Harawa, which settlers attacked and burned several times

These things get a free pass from the Australian police who will not go against the Israeli narrative.

So a person from Australia can go legally go and fight on either side in the Russian / Ukranian war, or even on both sides if they want, and definitely can go and join the IDF and shoot Palestinian children or bomb them or cut off their water so that they die and come back and get book deals and so on and be fetted.

But go and report from the Palestinian side

[wadaye]

My question still remains about the predictive mathematics of this.
Normally the civilian or colonial kill ratio has to be about ten or a hundred to one to maintain the balance of terror in favor of the colonial state.

But Israel hides most of the killing through natural causism, that is by cutting off water and sanitation, making drinking water unsafe for decades, etcetera. That is called plausible deniability. It has the same effect as gassing on an individual level when one is killed by it. So does white phosphorous too. So the gassing going on at the moment is actually by Israel/U.S. alliance. Those who blindly state that they support Israel without condemning its atrocity crimes, are actually complicit supporters.

Yes I can be accused that in this or some other paragraph I did not in each sentence preface it with a condemnation of Hamas massacre of innocents - well for the record I do. But until I hear Israel condemn Ariel Sharon for the Sabra and Shatilla massacres and so many others, I think the moral outrage is selective.

[wadaye]

This applies to Australia even more than Israel

https://africasacountry.com/2023/10/whe ... -civilians

When settlers become civilians
BY
Mohammed Jameel Abdulla
The tragedy of settler-colonialism.

When settlers first arrive cosmic violence befalls those they dispossess.
...

A secondary cosmic violence befalls the Dispossessed. The invaders have become normalized. The conquest is complete. The settlers have become civilians.

When this tragedy takes place, the original sin becomes unendingly complex to resolve. To pursue the logical conclusion to the settler question means warfare. To adopt an attitude of warfare toward civilians defies common-sense morality.

In pursuing this path of justice for the original sin, a third cosmic horror befalls the Dispossessed: the Dispossessed become terrorists.

the Above is worth a read again for the long view which does not require distorted racial/national long term perspectives.


https://africasacountry.com/2023/10/free-palestine

Free Palestine
BY
William Shoki
Bruce Baigrie
The horrific violence against civilians, both Palestinian and Israeli, are overwhelmingly the product of Israel’s occupation and siege. But we can and must condemn all of it, while steadfastly opposing Israeli apartheid.


10.12.2023
POLITICS
CONTINENTAL
Free Palestine
BY
William Shoki
Bruce Baigrie
The horrific violence against civilians, both Palestinian and Israeli, are overwhelmingly the product of Israel’s occupation and siege. But we can and must condemn all of it, while steadfastly opposing Israeli apartheid.


Barrier 2: Fading homage to Delacroix. Credit hjl via Flickr CC BY-NC 2.0 Deed.

On the 7th of October, the sight of a bulldozer ripping through the steel of the border fence imprisoning Gaza, rather than demolishing yet another Palestinian’s home, could only amaze those of us in solidarity. Around two miles from the wall, Israelis and international tourists participated in a “desert rave.” It is one of the most staggering aspects of Israeli society that such events can take place without the participants giving thought to the millions of prisoners nearby. These prisoners are people almost entirely at the mercy of an occupier who claims they have no right to be there. Yet, the thousands of attendants at the Supernova music festival did not deserve what came to them. Kibbutz Be’eri and Kfar Aza were massacres, and this violence must be condemned. The left, within and beyond the international Palestine solidarity movement, is doomed if we abandon our long-standing principles.

Anyone who has participated in Palestine solidarity, in demanding they be afforded equal rights, has been told to “condemn Hamas.” And in our call to condemn the murders of hundreds of civilians, this is implicit. But to be preoccupied with condemnation of Hamas is entirely futile. The violence against civilians perpetrated by Hamas is overwhelmingly a product of Israel’s actions. ...

Africaisacountry has other anti-colonial perspectives. Unless we try to see the world in the long view also from the colonial south, we will miss an important other side, the side of the oppressed

[wadaye]

Sorry to Joele I withdraw my comment which had alleged that you alleged I was exhibiting anti-semitism.

It is in the moment understandable that you post that.

But there is not any explanation by the police for their crackdown on any expression of solidarity for Palestinian civilians and even the Palestinian cause, which was done irreperable harm by the Hamas terrorism.

[Irrev-Black]

It may be preferable, wherever possible, to use one's own words regarding matters this sensitive.

Quoting verbatim at length can introduce many side issues.

[wadaye]

fixed, or at least, improved