Australian Atheists Forum

wadaye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 1:07 amNotethe false use of the word neighbours

Why is "neighbours" false?

Because they are actually refugees from the same place with the right of return and under international law they are under the protection of the occupying power which is Israel itself
Edit its been the occupying power since 1967

wadaye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 1:31 amThe cutting off of water food and any kind of supplies is designed to kill children and vulnerable first

Yeah that is a horrific form of blackmail (crass hostage negotiation)..

Israel has given terms, basically to the effect of - We will not allow power, fuel, food or water into Gaza until all hostages are released...

I see the "logic" in their demand, but that is the cruellest form of collective punishment possible and an undeniable war crime.

Thank you Joelle

I not only agree with you but also acknowledge how difficult personally and socially such a view is. The toxic pushback of "self-hating Jew" is the same as the bandied about use of the accusation anti-semitism to silence all dissent and criticism. Its probably worse to experience, actually because it is also an accusation of anti-semitism at the same time.

We are in this world living in unexplored territory. We in the priveledged world live with the unspoken fear that "you can't let everyone in" to a life, but we readily as entropic organisms and systems eject our death onto those caught in the exhaust of the modern world. The longer we delay the reckoning the worse the end result is. The "solutions" become more polarised binary and involving of evil, as seen from both organisations - Hamas and the IDF.

The German military against the Nama and Herero and the (European) Australians also engaged in genocide by cutting off the water. One can go through history too. Its an ancient genocide tactic.

In the rush for vengeance both sides - Hamas and the IDF, became perpetrators of massacre of innocents.

wadaye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:00 amI not only agree with you but also acknowledge how difficult personally and socially such a view is. The toxic pushback of "self-hating Jew" is the same as the bandied about use of the accusation anti-semitism to silence all dissent and criticism. Its probably worse to experience, actually because it is also an accusation of anti-semitism at the same time.

To be honest I tend to argue with both sides of this, I have (jewish) family who get very upset if I use words like 'war crimes' around them and have their one sided history (which I confront), who simply stop talking to me. On the other hand I have 'left wing' (which obviously I am too) friends who only see their own selective version of history, justify counter atrocities and/or keep using "Jews" instead of IDF, and the conflict that I tend to have with them..

It sometimes kind of feels isolating in the middle (of course admittedly in my safe western ivory tower), though I often feel if both sides are angry at me, then I probably am somewhere nearer to the truth than either of them hahaha... Or I am just a gluten for disagreement.

In the rush for vengeance both sides - Hamas and the IDF, became perpetrators of massacre of innocents.

100%

wadaye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:51 am Because they are actually refugees from the same place with the right of return and under international law they are under the protection of the occupying power which is Israel itself
Edit its been the occupying power since 1967

Oh I took the word "neighbours" to mean Syria, Egypt, Jordan etc., and not the Palestinian people, it just means "nearby countries", surely.

stylofone wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 1:08 pm

wadaye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:51 am Because they are actually refugees from the same place with the right of return and under international law they are under the protection of the occupying power which is Israel itself
Edit its been the occupying power since 1967

Oh I took the word "neighbours" to mean Syria, Egypt, Jordan etc., and not the Palestinian people, it just means "nearby countries", surely.

I think what the word means is dependent on the user of the word and the context.

Edit: I can see the context it is used by Tortois news is to refer to "Neighbours and the Palestinian people" so you are likely right there.

This really sucks. White phosphorus is supposedly banned... then, to use it over penned-up civilians?

Israel’s use of white phosphorus in military operations in Gaza and Lebanon puts civilians at risk of serious and long-term injuries, Human Rights Watch said today in releasing a question and answer document on white phosphorus. Human Rights Watch verified videos taken in Lebanon and Gaza on October 10 and 11, 2023, respectively, showing multiple airbursts of artillery-fired white phosphorus over the Gaza City port and two rural locations along the Israel-Lebanon border, and interviewed two people who described an attack in Gaza.

White phosphorus, which can be used either for marking, signaling, and obscuring, or as a weapon to set fires that burn people and objects, has a significant incendiary effect that can severely burn people and set structures, fields, and other civilian objects in the vicinity on fire. The use of white phosphorus in Gaza, one of the most densely populated areas in the world, magnifies the risk to civilians and violates the international humanitarian law prohibition on putting civilians at unnecessary risk.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/isr ... za-lebanon

unspeakable. and the police already indicating intimidation tactics on any show of support for Palestinian civilians in Sydney.

When it was used in Fallujah the images of charred partially defleshed human remains were horrendous. This includes not only the four US contractors but the hundreds or thousands of Iraqis killed in retaliation.

As Orwell said, if you want to know if it is racist, see how it treats the women. The same here too. The question is the quantity of dead to satisfy the colonial balance of terror. Is it 10:1, 30:1, or 100:1 ???