Electric + Human-Powered Vehicles

[Irrev-Black]

Some more battery tech news.

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/07/14/su ... oundaries/

[joele]

there was a BYD Dolphin there but I think it was supplied by a company because they are so new and there aren't any owners of that particular model

So picked up my car on Saturday, all good so far, very different but also not that different really. Already had one neighbour come over and want a demo and talk about it, though he is thinking of a PHEV.

Was hilarious when I got it, the dealership is a joint ford and byd dealership, byd was super busy and ford was completely empty.

On to.your point, they told me the dolphins have only started to deliver to customers this week, might explain the lack of owner evangelists.

[Irrev-Black]

The EV idea ain't as new-fangled as one might think.



https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... n-pictures

Porsche was an early adopter, too.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_AU/prod ... 18563.html

[stylofone]

Those olde world pics of early EVs are great. Also the Porsche article makes me think that motor racing could be an incubator of technology which will filter down to normal transport.

The caveat is that the fog of capitalism hangs over electric cars and climate change. At this late stage, I can't see how we can afford all the carbon emissions from the development of EVs for personal vehicle ownership. We need to transition to no cars. We could cut the speed limit in residential areas to 30km/h and rebuild the roads, making them more like big cycle lanes, but leaving enough space for a truck with flashing lights and a warning beeper to slowly get through if any construction needs to be done. We also need to electrify the entire rail network in Australia and extend it. In NSW, for example, the current electric network on the south coast ends at Kiama, and then you change to a diesel train to Bomaderry. It should go all the way to the VIctorian border and also be used for freight so we can get rid of diesel trucks. But we need to be careful not to invest too much in infrastructure in areas which could become uninhabitable due to climate change. Transport also needs to be durable and simple enough to be maintained if supply chains break, just like they did in the Covid pandemic.

[joele]

Didn't electric cars come before internal combustion engines? Pretty sure they did, but oil won (for a while anyway).

[stevebrooks]

Steam cars first in 1769 with first true automobile, then the de Rivaz internal combustion engine, then the electric motor. However there's a huge difference between making an automobile and making a practical automobile for mass market, so in actuality should the history of automobiles be measured from the first example manufactured, no matter how impractical, or from a automobile ready to be manufactured and sold to the public?

For me a car is something you can go out and easily buy and drive around the road so probably the first practical automobiles were actually steam driven, then electric, then internal combustion in that order. Mind you the development of all 3 were all pretty close together, and yes ICE won out simply because of the practicality of storing and carrying fuel to make them go. New battery developments from Toyota and NASA in the form of solid state batteries suggest a bright future for electric cars, with ranges of over 1000klm possible within a few years. To my mind 800klm range would be the minimum range needed for long distance travel in Australia to encourage people to change en masse to electric cars, so given 1000klm range I think the future is indeed rosy for electric cars.

[joele]

My money is on the two biggest battery makers in the world at the moment, the Chinese companies, being Amperex + BYD getting there first. BYD is promising their first solid state car being available in China next year.. Though they are going a different direction, at first, with lower density Sodium Ion batteries and pushing for smaller vehicles. But they also have patents for sulfur/lithium solid state batteries which I can only assume are coming down the track.

So got my first free recharge yesterday, as I went to noodle shop and across the road the town hall had two open free EV charging bays. Only got 5% charge whilst getting take away, but better than a kick in the nuts.. lol...

[stevebrooks]

My money is on the two biggest battery makers in the world at the moment, the Chinese companies, being Amperex + BYD getting there first. BYD is promising their first solid state car being available in China next year.. Though they are going a different direction, at first, with lower density Sodium Ion batteries and pushing for smaller vehicles. But they also have patents for sulfur/lithium solid state batteries which I can only assume are coming down the track.

So got my first free recharge yesterday, as I went to noodle shop and across the road the town hall had two open free EV charging bays. Only got 5% charge whilst getting take away, but better than a kick in the nuts.. lol...

That's very possible indeed, it just needs us to wait and see, meanwhile here is a very interesting article detailing 21 myths about electric cars, and keep in mind while reading (it is quite long but worth it), it ignores entirely advances in battery technology we are seeing at the moment except in a minor way in regard to weight, probably because these advances can't be quantified until they are actually in common use, so it relies on data purely from Li-ion batteries currently in use, so as battery technology advances these myths will become ever more irrelevant;

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-2 ... -vehicles/

[stevebrooks]

And I see at the end of October Ford also announced a solid state Sodium Ion batter to be used in the upcoming Ford Taurus EV, I somehow missed the Ford announcement, how did that happen?

[joele]

so it relies on data purely from Li-ion batteries currently in use, so as battery technology advances these myths will become ever more irrelevant;

Yeah some advances have already dated the article but as you say only for the better.. I.e. LFP batteries like BYD make have no nickel or cobalt at all and last even longer than those lithium cobalt batteries. Improving two of the points re longevity and cobalt mining.

Good article overall though, some good ammunition in it