Israel

[wadaye]

It is reprehensible that anyone would use the opportunity to enact anti-semitism. Anti-semitism is a particularly virulent strain of racism from Christianity, and nazis taking the opportunity to take out their hatred should be punished to the full extent of the law.

To my understanding they are as far as I have seen also expelled from their attempted takeovers of Palestinian solidarity forums,

It is to be noted that the updated 2017 Hamas charter abandons the anti-semitism of the 1988 charter, and specifically states that their struggle is not with Jews but with Zionism. I note however that the ADF website does not acknowledge this.

[joele]

Anti-semitism is a particularly virulent strain of racism from Christianity, and nazis taking the opportunity to take out their hatred should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Also common for centuries in the Muslim world for middle Eastern Jews but I suppose that is rightly called anti Jewish rather than anti semetism.

It is to be noted that the updated 2017 Hamas charter abandons the anti-semitism of the 1988 charter, and specifically states that their struggle is not with Jews but with Zionism.

Well the worst anti Jewish excert in the 1988 Hamas charter was simply a direct quote from the Hadith.

The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.' Only the Gharkad tree would not do that, because it is one of the trees of the Jews.

EDIT: reference - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Cha ... 88_charter

[wadaye]

Yes and it is disingenuous for the IDF to fail to acknowledge this on their website and state that Hamas charter calls for the extermination of all Jews when not even the 2017 charter, anti-Jewish as it was, did not say that. It should be acknowledged that the 2017 Charter states:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hama ... ument-full

16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.

17. Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine.

[wadaye]

False information on the IDF website
https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-ha ... anization/

Hamas aims to annihilate the State of Israel and establish an Islamic State in its place, with its official charter calling for the death of all Jews.

The false part is that the Hamas Charter is calling for the death of all Jews when clearly the above shows that it is not.

[wadaye]

In serious contrast is the Israeli declaration of independence, establishing, a Jewish state:

On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable.

This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign State.

Thus members and representatives of the Jews of Palestine and of the Zionist movement are here assembled on the day is the termination of the British Mandate over Eretz-Yisra'el and, by virtue of our natural and historic right and on the strength of the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-YISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

WE DECLARE that, with effect from the moment of the termination of the Mandate being tonight, the eve of Sabbath, the 6th Iyar, 5708 (15th May, 1948), ... the People's Council shall act as a Provisional Council of State, and its executive organ, the People's Administration, shall be the Provisional Government of the Jewish State, to be called "The State of Israel".

[Irrev-Black]

Words aside, what people do is far more telling.

[Irrev-Black]

Mod Voice = ON.

It would be unwise to fall into the trap of comparing religious books or foundational documents as any basis for the current war, as it becomes painfully clear that many of the deeds making news (and hurting people with no power over any of those doing the deeds) bear only a very tenuous relationship to those books or credos.

i have hopes that this forum might continue to show clear thinking.

We can do it.

[stylofone]

Mod Voice = ON.

It would be unwise to fall into the trap of comparing religious books or foundational documents as any basis for the current war, as it becomes painfully clear that many of the deeds making news (and hurting people with no power over any of those doing the deeds) bear only a very tenuous relationship to those books or credos.

i have hopes that this forum might continue to show clear thinking.

We can do it.

Actually on this subject I personally find myself mostly unable to express the result of what I perceive for a moment to be clear thinking in my brain. Several times I've started writing comments on this thread and decided I've potentially implied things I don't intend to, so I just delete it and move on. The world doesn't need my half-formed opinions even though I've enjoyed spewing them out at other times in my life when they were hopefully more than 51% formed.

[wadaye]

The Israeli infliction of the Hannibal doctrine even to today can be categorised as operation no living thing. It can also be read back into the motivation of the Israeli army in killing anything that moved or didn't move on 7th October 2023, including Israeli civilians. The Israeli survivors narrative proves more believable than the IDF narrative. Hence the IDF actions on 7th October 2023 can be characterised as terrorism, including and specifically against Israelis. The same applies for their bombing of the Palestinian hospitals today. One can suppose that this is said to be an attempt to rescue the hostages, but it would be ridiculous for anyone to believe it. Israel wants the hostages dead and is prepared to do anything and kill any number of Paletinians in order to ensure, that is for the IDF to ensure, that no Israeli civilian hostages survive. That is called the Hannibal Doctrine and it is the specific and stated policy of the IDF. We are all tooo stupid to see it in action and we waive away genocides and all the like under the illusion oh they're only trying to save the hostages. Nothing could be further from the truth. Netanyahu wants the hostages dead in order to justify the conquest of Eretz Israel.
It is time to recognise that the International community under Biden does not recognise Palestinians as human beings. By extension this explains most of the current state of the world as well as it is not only Palestinians but also Africans, and other members of the dispossessed global south, who are the objects of this anti-black racism.

As for the invocation of the book, actually Netanyahu invoked it and should be accountable for it.

As for actions speaking louder than words, the Israeli survivors and hostages should be believed rather than the IDF. It is the IDF which appears to have killed most of the Israelis on 7th October 2023 and it is the IDF which is continuing to attempt to kill them now. That it is exterminating Palestinians does not bother the power elites and most of the societies in the advanced industrial world. But that it also involves extermination of the Israeli hostages should show us that everyone is disposable to these baby killers in power. I am talking about Biden here.

[wadaye]

The Gaza genocide is also instructive that NATO is a threat to international peace and stability.