Australian Atheists Forum

pipbarber wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:52 pmhe doesn't like doomers:

By co-incidence I was reading about Mann vs doomers today. This came about because I was searching for practical information about climate crisis prepping, which is broadly what I've been focused on for the past few years. There is very little info out there, you end up with endless debates like this one.

I agree that his claim that doomerism is a fossil fuel information war strategy lacks evidence. My own summary is that the doomer stance is the fossil fuel
industry's worst nightmare. An example is my little slogan that "the transition to electric cars will make climate change worse, it will just do it slightly slower than fossil fuel cars. We actually need to transition to NO cars."

"No cars" is an example of the intersection between adaptation and mitigation. You can go car-free because you want to reduce your emissions and prevent disaster; or if you think disaster is inevitable you can go car free because pretty soon you'll have no choice and you'd better get ready.

I also wonder when the likes of Mann have to make the switch and stop saying "the good news is it's not too late but we're running out of time." When does he say "Well, that's it, we've run out of time." He and his admirable cohort have been saying "we are running out of time" for decades, and emissions keep on rising. China, the US, Australia, the UK - just about everywhere - it's more fracking, more coal approvals, more coal-fired power stations (in China anyway).

10, 15, 20 years ago, we heard the "good new clause": if we act NOW it will be OK. What I see is that we didn't act then, we're not acting now, we won't act in the future. This is a political judgement, it's my assessment of human behaviour and self-deception. It's not a scientific judgement about parts per million or whatever. The fossil fuel advocates are winning. China has promised to INCREASE carbon emissions until 2030 and then scale them back, becoming carbon neutral by 2060. 2060! Act now? No, let's do it in 37 years. These targets are usually missed so maybe it will be 50 years or more.

The article where I read Mann's anti-doomer rhetoric was from 2020. It sounds like that was when he had the idea for his book. The climate nightmares of 2023 (Canada, Hawaii, Antarctic sea ice, etc.) hadn't happened then.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-51857722

Its also funny to see the red herrings of Fox Murdoch Sky

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/sc ... Lt#image=1

They say human supremacy will end in 250 million years with increased warmth as a result of .... tectonic plate movement.

That little concern about visible degradation of the biosphere from raging clear-felling, .... na. No mention of global warming from CO2 either.

I guess that's just a paid advert from the coal council which happily entrances its shareholders and 'consumers' with 150 years solid of coal reserves.

its sort of a nihilistic way of saying, 'we can do doom as well, now you worriers just do as you're trained and everything will be alright'.

It's interesting that the right have so energetically promoted climate denialism given that Thatcher was one of the first major world leader to raise the alarm. Is it just the influx of fossil fuel backed funding and influence? Or was it always obvious that capitalism was the central problem. I suppose it wasn't obvious to Thatcher.

pipbarber wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:28 am It's interesting that the right have so energetically promoted climate denialism given that Thatcher was one of the first major world leader to raise the alarm. Is it just the influx of fossil fuel backed funding and influence? Or was it always obvious that capitalism was the central problem. I suppose it wasn't obvious to Thatcher.

I generally assume that Thatcher's view was heavily influenced by her desire to shut down the inefficient coal industry, which was a massive piece of class warfare. If you wind the clock forward a couple of decades, the trade union movement is generally onside with climate reality, and if Thatcher were around today she would line up with the fossil fuel industry, because there would be no enemies left on that side.

A thousand words' worth from Matt Golding:

"Gobsmackingly bananas" seems to have been irresistible, even to the Murdoch press based on one unscientific internet search by me. I'm using it as motivation to keep up the energy on my personal adaptation efforts.

https://www.smh.com.au/environment/weat ... 5e9x5.html

Now we are told we need to unlock resources on the ocean floor to facilitate the green transition.
See aljazeera 101East
There are so many presumptions cooked into this that its mind destroying

From the bom:

Climate models indicate this El Niño is likely to persist until at least the end of February.

I think that's a recent change. Pretty sure last time i checked 'early December' was the estimated duration of El Nino? Going to be a long summer.

One panel.

The mantra is "you can't stop progress", but it turns out that we have to.