Australian Atheists Forum

Irrev-Black wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:07 am Sub-zero Teslas are free of charge, it seems.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chicago- ... 17227.html

Yeah that's one of the reasons so much money has been spent on developing better battery technology, the useful temperature range of Lion batteries isn't great. One you get below minus 20 you have problems, and there are so many places in the world where that happens regularly that it's a problem, I would never recommend a car with Lion batteries in a really cold country. Oh yes that temperature is the discharge temperature, the charge temperature is even more limited, around 0 Celsius for charging so it's no wonder they aren't charging. New developments, even in Lion batteries are increasing that temperature range, but I guess all those Tesla's didn't get the message.

Irrev-Black wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:07 am Sub-zero Teslas are free of charge, it seems.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chicago- ... 17227.html

In the interest of fairness:

https://electrek.co/2024/01/17/electric ... reme-cold/

This shit is starting to piss me off.. I have seen a few of these articles now (and videos etc) comparing electric and petrol cars and saying electric is no cheaper (or more expensive). I presume this is to turn people off buying them by saying this is going to cost your family more..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -cars.html

They are rigged tests though..

1) They all seem to be highway tests at 100 or even 110 kmh.. This is the LEAST efficient time for an electric cars which most people I talk to are not aware of (something the creators of these 'tests' are probably counting on) and conversely the most efficient time for petrol cars... Redo the test in peak hour or just normal capital city driving (where most cars are) at 40-80kmh, they will get VERY different results.

2) They are using the fastest roadside chargers (350kw) that charge around 70cents per kwh, that is the most expensive way possible to fill your EV. If you charge off your home solar you are not paying, but even if you use power from the grid you are likely going to be paying around 3 times less than those overpriced super fast chargers..

3) For most people a road trip on a hwy where you have to use expensive fast chargers may be something people do a few times a year, but it is not most peoples day to day usage.

4) They even used the expensive fast chargers at the end of the road trip to fill the car back up and included that in the cost.. why?

The title should not be - "Auto website CarExpert's Sydney-Melbourne road trip reveals the shocking truth about whether EVs are cheaper to run than petrol cars" but rather "Auto website CarExpert's Sydney-Melbourne road trip reveals the not so shocking reality that the least efficient scenario for EVs (and most expensive charge option) leaves them no cheaper to run than the most efficient scenario for petrol cars".

The other funny thing is they used expensive BMWs and Evie chargers, I wonder if the reason they used Evie is it is more expensive than Chargefox who btw also give 5 years of free charging for these high end BMWs..

joele wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 1:19 pm This shit is starting to piss me off.. I have seen a few of these articles now (and videos etc) comparing electric and petrol cars and saying electric is no cheaper (or more expensive). I presume this is to turn people off buying them by saying this is going to cost your family more..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -cars.html

They are rigged tests though..

1) They all seem to be highway tests at 100 or even 110 kmh.. This is the LEAST efficient time for an electric cars which most people I talk to are not aware of (something the creators of these 'tests' are probably counting on) and conversely the most efficient time for petrol cars... Redo the test in peak hour or just normal capital city driving (where most cars are) at 40-80kmh, they will get VERY different results.

2) They are using the fastest roadside chargers (350kw) that charge around 70cents per kwh, that is the most expensive way possible to fill your EV. If you charge off your home solar you are not paying, but even if you use power from the grid you are likely going to be paying around 3 times less than those overpriced super fast chargers..

3) For most people a road trip on a hwy where you have to use expensive fast chargers may be something people do a few times a year, but it is not most peoples day to day usage.

4) They even used the expensive fast chargers at the end of the road trip to fill the car back up and included that in the cost.. why?

The title should not be - "Auto website CarExpert's Sydney-Melbourne road trip reveals the shocking truth about whether EVs are cheaper to run than petrol cars" but rather "Auto website CarExpert's Sydney-Melbourne road trip reveals the not so shocking reality that the least efficient scenario for EVs (and most expensive charge option) leaves them no cheaper to run than the most efficient scenario for petrol cars".

The other funny thing is they used expensive BMWs and Evie chargers, I wonder if the reason they used Evie is it is more expensive than Chargefox who btw also give 5 years of free charging for these high end BMWs..

chargefoxfree.jpg

Yeah it's all strongly biased to reflect badly on electric cars, you know it's as if the industry that supports and makes a living off ICE maintenance and servicing is funding anti-EV propaganda. I keep reading articles about the lack of charging infrastructure and range cheating by manufacturers quoting an ideal range. Do they really think ICE range numbers are given with the Aircon on full blast and not also at ideal economic vehicle speeds?

When I also read these complaints about lack if charging infrastructure I can only think back to the early days of ICE, where do they think the first few thousand owners of ICE cars in the country got their fuel? Well it wasn't at the local gas station that's for sure. What they aren't thinking about is we already have a vast infrastructure set up for EV charging. The power cables already exist, the parking areas exist in the form of car parks everywhere, garages, supermarkets etc, it just need to be adapted for a different system. But imagine the end of service stations in towns and cities if you could park and charge in supermarket car parks, use the cafes and restaurants in the center instead of the service station food, do your shopping while the car charges, this is the industry that car users support and that will practically vanish with home charging and other convenient locations.

What would continue to exist is service centers, but fewer of them, we still need tires and brakes fixed, roadhouses in remote areas, but not the local garage where everyone goes to purchase fuel, they would, almost to an entirety, vanish. No more huge trucks carrying fuel around either, much safer local roads, the changes that accompany EV changeover are enormous and very much more far reaching that most of these article writers imagine, going as far as refineries closing, oil transport ships that are quite literally a stain on the oceans vanishing, many polluting oil fields closing business for good, of course there's huge push back, which is why government action is needed to push EV adoption.

stevebrooks wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 2:32 pmDo they really think ICE range numbers are given with the Aircon on full blast and not also at ideal economic vehicle speeds?

Diesel Gate anyone?

stevebrooks wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 2:32 pmBut imagine the end of service stations in towns and cities if you could park and charge in supermarket car parks, use the cafes and restaurants in the center instead of the service station food, do your shopping while the car charges, this is the industry that car users support and that will practically vanish with home charging and other convenient locations.

No need to imagine, my local woolworths has 12 charging bays, I park there and shop there way more now than in the past. I also park there and go to the pub next door or up the street to other shops, haha..

I did keep an eye out going up the Hume this xmas break (though we took the CX5 for this trip as town we were staying in had no chargers near by). Plenty of available chargers on the hume, and I was thinking, putting more chargers in some of the bypassed towns really could help save them.

joele wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 1:19 pmI presume this is to turn people off buying them by saying this is going to cost your family more..

When the fuel companies led the fight it was dirty. The climate change misinformation reached the level of criminal fraud. I was looking at Australian car sales figures recently and it occurred to me the ICE car sellers and manufacturers are about to get a shock. Maybe they are getting worried.

For 2023, 965,132 ICE cars were sold, up 6.1%.

Battery EVs were 87,217, up 161.1%.

If that growth is repeated this year, we are on target for over 200,000 battery EVs to be sold. If every new EV is a lost ICE sale, that means ICE vehicles would fall 20% this year. have no idea whether those numbers will pan out, but my un-expert opinion is that the Dolphin, MG4 and Ora will make a big difference. Then next year we are supposed to have fuel efficiency rules like the ones in Europe and California, which could extend the period of exponential growth. We might be a year away from EV sales being roughly the same as ICE sales. I also wonder whether the huge uptake of rooftop solar is also an indicator that we are about to see an EV explosion here. Sales explosion, that is!

stylofone wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 4:20 pmWe might be a year away from EV sales being roughly the same as ICE sales. I also wonder whether the huge uptake of rooftop solar is also an indicator that we are about to see an EV explosion here. Sales explosion, that is!

There's also another factor that's missing from all of these anti-EV diatribes, they almost always concentrate on things like range anxiety and charging availability outside the cities, but this, essentially, is a null factor in 90%+ usage of EV's. If you are a city or town dwelling 2 car family who go out into the outback for holidays and/or tow a caravan or boat for recreation, it's almost certain that one of your cars will be a large SUV, the other vehicle will also almost certainly be a sedan for ease of use in the city, parking, fuel economy etc. There's absolutely zero reason why this vehicle shouldn't be electric and charged at home.

That's a huge part of the market and I can see the sale of EV's into that segment of the market booming, never need to visit a charging station because it's always charged at home, does any purely city vehicle travel far enough to require charging during the day? Highly unlikely. And yet, I continually see EV road tests on you tube and etc specifically doing road tests that take them hundred of kms out of the city and into the country and then complaining because range/lack of charger availability, ICE cars blocking charging stations and etc. The tests they are doing are outside what I would suggest is normal usage for a large percentage of the population, second car buyers, they need to test a normal days city usage. Drive to work, stop at the shop on the way home, dropping off and picking up kids from school and sports, ever seen an EV test that does that? Nope, why not? That's an ideal usage case for an EV.

Every major car manufacturer is moving away from petroleum fueled cars, there is an actual shortage of them already. This apparent surge of jurassic antipathy toward EVs by Rupert's sycophantic horde is the last fart of a dying technology. It reminds me of Scott Morrisons's 'gas lead recovery' after the pandemic, remember that? 18 moths later gas being no longer extended to new housing projects is a policy direction, everyone is moving away from using fucking gas. Right on the money Scotty!

I know it's a bit condescending to say this but many conservatives seem to be so fucking stupid they to fail to discern the difference between preserving the power structures that reproduce their own privilege and preserving an obsolete technology - it's all the same to them. This goes to demonstrate the ignorance contingent to privilege and all i can hope for is that they invest heavily in a futures market for petrol based vehicles (and buy low lying coastal real estate).

pipbarber wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:46 pmThis goes to demonstrate the ignorance contingent to privilege and all i can hope for is that they invest heavily in a futures market for petrol based vehicles (and buy low lying coastal real estate).

I hate to depress you, but have you seen Gina Rinehart's lithium investments? Money is the ultimate noise- cancelling device for cognitive dissonance.

On the other hand, it seems to be getting harder to use the energy transition as camouflage for your ongoing fossil fuel extraction, e.g. the argument that gas can be used on cloudy days is blown away by wind, batteries and hydro.

A crowdfunding campaign raised $15,000 to put a charger in at a pub in Braidwood. Apparently the power's on, they just have to get the software all sorted. Admittedly it's on a road heavily used by EV-loving ACT residents, but it's a pointer to the future, chargers will be sprouting like mushrooms soon.

Pic ripped from fb