Australian Atheists Forum

stylofone wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:43 am [Disclaimer: the reason I say anything against Biden is that it is imperative that Trump is defeated.]

This could be the moment the Democratic Party realises its arse is on fire, and the flames are spreading. How bad the blaze is will be determined by the reaction to the age question in coming weeks. I see several issues: the first is competency, is his fading brain up to it? The second is fragility, men his age get sick and die all the time. The third is the rot of gerontocracy. Young people are simply not allowed to participate in society in so many ways, and it's getting worse. All of this applies to Trump too, but it seems to be hurting Biden worse. Trump has always been cognitively inferior, but it doesn't seem to affect him in the same way it does Biden. Stupidity is a key part of the Trump brand.

The long-shot Democratic primary challenger Dean Phillips, who is campaigning against Biden, said Hur’s report had “all but handed the 2024 election to Donald Trump”.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ts-respond

I fail to see how Biden's failing memory on classified documents (if it happened, haven't seen any details yet) is worse than Trump actually stealing classified documents, hiding classified documents, revealing classified documents to people without clearance, and in fact possibly still possessing some classified documents that were possibly locked away in a room the FBI didn't search. If Biden's poor memory ends his chances, surely Trump's should be dead in the water already, dead and sinking to the bottom fast.

Even if true, it still makes Biden the preferred President if the two face off because poor memory about documents is a far less dangerous than actual criminal intent to steal documents!

My personal feelings aside, that they are both to old anyway, the analysis that the Hur report means Trump must win if the two face off just doesn't hold water. The opposite in fact should be true, that Trump's criminal intent to steal confidential documents means Biden must win. Of course it's politics so neither have any guarantee of happening, we just have to wait and see if Biden can ride this out, it's probably to late to change now.

It's not as if the best of all possible Democrat candidates is facing off against the best of all possible Republican candidates.

System is categorically fucked.

stevebrooks wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:55 pm

Even if true, it still makes Biden the preferred President if the two face off because poor memory about documents is a far less dangerous than actual criminal intent to steal documents!

Biden would be the preferred president over Trump if Biden was an actual corpse, propped up with metal rods and such. Biden's morning piss would make a better president than Trump, as would Biden's dog. (In fact i'd probably vote for Biden's dog over Biden, but anyway).

This is pure less worseism at it's absolute zenith, or nadir depending on how you look at it. Biden and the Dems are fucking dreadful. They're a bunch of old white billionaires greenwashing, genderwashing, corporate fucktarts that believe in neoliberalism, economic growth and are deeply committed to maintaining the global economic and political order, which is basically a death sentence to tens, perhaps hundreds of millions of invisible people through economic imperialism and climate collapse. Fuck the Democrats. I, personally, detest them and everything they stand for.

But that still makes them vastly superior to Trump and his ridiculous party. They are fascists, that's all that needs to be said. I don't see why any defense of Biden is required though. He's a terrible candidate. He is going to fuck up numerous times over the next few months and it will be hugely damaging. Trump fucks up and his polling improves because he's a demagogue candidate whilst Biden is a 20th century candidate. Actually, it's not a fair fight but the Dems, and Biden, only have themselves to blame. Ideally, they needed a charismatic candidate for actual systemic change, short of that, an Obama type candidate that pretends to be a candidate for systemic change, instead they chose Biden who is neither.

I would venture to say almost anyone in the Democrats would be preferable to Biden right now, anyone. Clearly most of American voters do not support Trump and his fascist agenda, but it counts for nothing if they can't bring themselves, or be bothered on the day, to vote for a cognitively diminished octogenarian who is basically saying 'more of the same.' And don't forget how few people actually follow politics in the US. This is not a highly engaged polity but everyone, engaged or not, will be exposed to Biden's fuck ups on loop for the next 8 months.

They need to dump Biden.

Here's the problem, neatly illustrated. Biden, unlike his predecessors, is not going to take up the offer of a broadcast one on one interview prior to the Super Bowl. The Dems are saying they don't want to disturb people with politics on the day, a line that is believed by basically no one, given that Biden doesn't really do one on one interviews with anyone anymore.

So he surrenders a huge platform, a rare chance to grab some positive media oxygen from Trump, who tends to suck all of it away - continuously. And this happens because no one can risk Biden misspeaking, forgetting things or something even worse. How can you run such a candidate?

The president’s strategists are hoping that at least one of Trump’s looming criminal trials for his part in the January 6 insurrection and trying to overturn the 2020 election comes to court before November to remind voters of the threat from another Trump presidency.

But all the while, they will be living in fear of Biden opening his mouth.

How is it going to work to have a candidate you can't allow to speak?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... den-memory

pipbarber wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:54 amHow is it going to work to have a candidate you can't allow to speak?

There's still a long way to go, and a lot can change. But Biden will just get older and older. I'm remembering 2016, when it was unthinkable that Trump would win... and then he did. Micheal Moore called it. The unthinkable is looking like it might happen again.

Then there was Nick Bryant's observation, that the hardocre MAGA crazies get all the attention, but there less extreme people also supporting Trump. I noticed an example of that in a comment from an American interloper on another site lately. His coping mechanism for his cognitive disonnance was a sort of "both sides-ism". He hates Trump, but he declared that Donald and Joe, the head of the 'Biden crime family' should both be in jail.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-a ... 5f3cw.html

stylofone wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:22 amHe hates Trump, but he declared that Donald and Joe, the head of the 'Biden crime family' should both be in jail.

Yes but I wouldn't class this person as a rational voter, unless the definition of reason in the US has changed drastically! The "Biden Crime Family" is an entirely invented fiction by MAGA and if you can't look at the evidence and decide that then you aren't by any argument a rational voter.

stevebrooks wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:55 pm

stylofone wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:22 amHe hates Trump, but he declared that Donald and Joe, the head of the 'Biden crime family' should both be in jail.

Yes but I wouldn't class this person as a rational voter, unless the definition of reason in the US has changed drastically! The "Biden Crime Family" is an entirely invented fiction by MAGA and if you can't look at the evidence and decide that then you aren't by any argument a rational voter.

In 2020, 70 million people thought another 4 years of Trump was a good option. 'Rational' has nothing to do with US politics, probably any politics actually, especially in the post fact age.

pipbarber wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:33 pm

stevebrooks wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:55 pm

stylofone wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:22 amHe hates Trump, but he declared that Donald and Joe, the head of the 'Biden crime family' should both be in jail.

Yes but I wouldn't class this person as a rational voter, unless the definition of reason in the US has changed drastically! The "Biden Crime Family" is an entirely invented fiction by MAGA and if you can't look at the evidence and decide that then you aren't by any argument a rational voter.

In 2020, 70 million people thought another 4 years of Trump was a good option. 'Rational' has nothing to do with US politics, probably any politics actually, especially in the post fact age.

Oh yes agree entirely, this is precisely why you don't target these people with your strategies, because that will have no effect on how they vote. If their decision on who to vote for is based on irrational thinking then you have no chance of changing it. You target the people who's thought processes can actually be changed, and indeed some of these may be Trump voters who have simply been misled, but those are the people you are after.

stevebrooks wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:46 pm

pipbarber wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:33 pm

stevebrooks wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:55 pm

Yes but I wouldn't class this person as a rational voter, unless the definition of reason in the US has changed drastically! The "Biden Crime Family" is an entirely invented fiction by MAGA and if you can't look at the evidence and decide that then you aren't by any argument a rational voter.

In 2020, 70 million people thought another 4 years of Trump was a good option. 'Rational' has nothing to do with US politics, probably any politics actually, especially in the post fact age.

Oh yes agree entirely, this is precisely why you don't target these people with your strategies, because that will have no effect on how they vote. If their decision on who to vote for is based on irrational thinking then you have no chance of changing it. You target the people who's thought processes can actually be changed, and indeed some of these may be Trump voters who have simply been misled, but those are the people you are after.

Yes, that seems a solid strategy. Is Biden capable of representing that strategy? He may be someone who wavering GOP voters might at least consider by virtue of familiarity, if nothing else. And really the last four years haven't been substantially worse than before, so.... Against that of course, are Biden's mistakes, and other manifestations of a diminishing cognitive capacity.

It's frighteningly close.

pipbarber wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:07 pm

stevebrooks wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:46 pm

pipbarber wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:33 pm
In 2020, 70 million people thought another 4 years of Trump was a good option. 'Rational' has nothing to do with US politics, probably any politics actually, especially in the post fact age.

Oh yes agree entirely, this is precisely why you don't target these people with your strategies, because that will have no effect on how they vote. If their decision on who to vote for is based on irrational thinking then you have no chance of changing it. You target the people who's thought processes can actually be changed, and indeed some of these may be Trump voters who have simply been misled, but those are the people you are after.

Yes, that seems a solid strategy. Is Biden capable of representing that strategy? He may be someone who wavering GOP voters might at least consider by virtue of familiarity, if nothing else. And really the last four years haven't been substantially worse than before, so.... Against that of course, are Biden's mistakes, and other manifestations of a diminishing cognitive capacity.

It's frighteningly close.

Indeed, but then, Trump's capability is also diminishing as time goes on, but at least Biden has a good team around him to try and keep him on the right track, Trump's team?