BarryK Claims God Exists

[Barryk]

According to the book, but you cannot use a book making claims to reference itself as true.

Hi Joele, sorry I can’t accept this argument. The book doesn’t say itself is true. The book contains witness accounts. All we have from those days is what is written. If we discount what is written, we have no history at all. No film, photos, web in those days.

[Barryk]

o they claim in the book, doesn't mean a thing.

Yes it does! It’s evidence. You don’t have to accept it, I do.

[joele]

Hi Joele, sorry I can’t accept this argument. The book doesn’t say itself is true. The book contains witness accounts. All we have from those days is what is written. If we discount what is written, we have no history at all. No film, photos, web in those days.

The book CLAIMS to have witness accounts, that doesn't mean they are true witness accounts.. The Koran claims to have the same, many other holy books from many other religions claim to say the same, do you believe in them too??

Most notable characters and events from history have better evidence than a collection of books written by their devotees long after they died. But they are also not making extra-ordinary claims, you would think if god wanted to be known by humanity he would do better than only show himself in a backwater (even for those times) where no one would write about him until well after he died.

Just funny that god showed himself a lot in ancient times when humans knew relatively little and frauds were common place and as technology advanced and human rationality advanced he stopped appearing. Well other than the many incarnations of god that appear as gurus in India like Sathya Sai Baba who had over a million followers there (while he was still alive even) that believed him to be an incarnation of god who performed miraculous healings, resurrections, clairvoyance, bilocation and was allegedly omnipotent and omniscient.

I want to be clear, I am not making the claim Jesus wasn't a person who existed, what I see a lack of evidence for is the miracle work.. His followers, decades after he died, writing in a book he did miracles is not proof, in fact it is far worse than the proof for Sathya Sai Baba.

[joele]

o they claim in the book, doesn't mean a thing.

Yes it does! It’s evidence. You don’t have to accept it, I do.

Is the harry potter series evidence of flying brooms?

[joele]

By the way still failing to address my criticism of your use of the Kalam Cosmological Argument.

[Barryk]

By the way still failing to address my criticism of your use of the Kalam Cosmological Argument.

I’m struggling to keep up with the multitude of comments. It’s my fault for entering the forum. BTW, yours are very well thought out and expressed. I understand you disagree with my first cause argument. Kalam doesn’t own it, it’s just common sense to me.

Could you explain how you think physical things can exist without some external action?

In the end everything doesn’t have to come down to reams of evidence. Some people refused to have COVID vaccinations and wear masks because they didn’t see proof. Some of them died or passed the disease on to others who may have died.

It doesn’t have to be harmful to believe in God, or not. As a Catholic, I don’t believe anyone has to believe in God “to be saved”. Many Christians do, and that’s a shame. It’s very judgmental and misguided.

Cheers Barry

[Barryk]

Is the harry potter series evidence of flying brooms?

Joele you have more lofty arguments than that.
Cheers Barry

[Barryk]

The book CLAIMS to have witness accounts, that doesn't mean they are true witness accounts.. The Koran claims to have the same, many other holy books from many other religions claim to say the same, do you believe in them too??

Most notable characters and events from history have better evidence than a collection of books written by their devotees long after they died. But they are also not making extra-ordinary claims, you would think if god wanted to be known by humanity he would do better than only show himself in a backwater (even for those times) where no one would write about him until well after he died.

Just funny that god showed himself a lot in ancient times when humans knew relatively little and frauds were common place and as technology advanced and human rationality advanced he stopped appearing. Well other than the many incarnations of god that appear as gurus in India like Sathya Sai Baba who had over a million followers there (while he was still alive even) that believed him to be an incarnation of god who performed miraculous healings, resurrections, clairvoyance, bilocation and was allegedly omnipotent and omniscient.

I want to be clear, I am not making the claim Jesus wasn't a person who existed, what I see a lack of evidence for is the miracle work.. His followers, decades after he died, writing in a book he did miracles is not proof, in fact it is far worse than the proof for Sathya Sai Baba.

Hi Joele, a lot of comments here.

I think we shouldn’t be surprised to not understand God’s decisions.

I think it’s begging the questions to question to say we shouldn’t believe the evidence of devotees of Jesus. They were devotees because of what they witnessed and many were killed for believing what the said they saw.

BTW, I’m not sure human rationality has advanced. Knowledge has. I find the rationality of today rather disturbing. The way many Australians went crazy over a game of soccer was completely over the top, in my opinion. I love sport, but crowd mentality at games of AFL, NRL and soccer does not show advanced rationality.

Nothing in the Bible is absolute proof. But it is evidence that I accept. The creation story of Genesis is not supposed to be literally true, but the central point that God created the world is what I believe.
Good night
Barry

[Loki]

"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there.

A theologist will find the cat.

An atheist brings a torch”

-apocryphal

[Loki]

Q: What would you call it if Catholics were reduced to 1%?

A: A good start