Israel

[pipbarber]

Very quotable:

@johnfugelsang @johnfugelsang@universeodon.com

Criticizing Hamas doesn't mean you hate Muslims.

Criticizing the Israel govt doesn't mean you hate Jews.

Criticizing the Trump administration doesn't mean you hate NASCAR fans.

Makes me think of that old classical liberal theory of 'cross-cutting cleavages' and how crucial they are to a working democracy. Pity it all got swallowed by capitalism. We're just two tribes now. Although Putin's support of Palestine is causing some interesting fracturing on the left and on the right, is Trump's less than total enthusiasm for Israel. Weirdly, these things might be useful, or just make everything even worse. Just an observation.

[wadaye]

Something has to be said about the scale of things. Quantity has a quality all of its own.

While the 1000 civilians killed by Hamas are a war crime, so too are the 4600 + 1400 missing Palestinians.
When we are told this is just the beginning of satiating the thirst for revenge, then something more has to be recognised, and then said.

When there is a clear dehumanisation of Palestinians to the point of nothingness, except for the distaste of having to see crumpled children's bodies, that is not only dehumanising of Palestinians, it is also dehumanising of those inflicting the killing, Israelis. For a country which claims to be against anti-semitism, it is wantonly creating it.

Edit
Having said that it is important to acknowledge all the civilian victims suffering, for each one is an individual which did not have capacity to choose at the critical moment to not be in the war.

[stylofone]

Something has to be said about the scale of things. Quantity has a quality all of its own.

While the 1000 civilians killed by Hamas are a war crime, so too are the 4600 + 1400 missing Palestinians.
When we are told this is just the beginning of satiating the thirst for revenge, then something more has to be recognised, and then said.

When there is a clear dehumanisation of Palestinians to the point of nothingness, except for the distaste of having to see crumpled children's bodies, that is not only dehumanising of Palestinians, it is also dehumanising of those inflicting the killing, Israelis. For a country which claims to be against anti-semitism, it is wantonly creating it.

Edit
Having said that it is important to acknowledge all the civilian victims suffering, for each one is an individual which did not have capacity to choose at the critical moment to not be in the war.

I understand the argument about quantity and quality, but I recoil at your words that Israel is "wantonly creating" anti-semitism. I think Israel's actions are creating global opposition and outrage, but throughout history, and in the present, anti-semitism is a pernicious form of hatred which seems to come from somewhere else, it's a higher form of prejudice and I don't think you can easily attribute it to those on the receiving end. Imagine if it was Russia or the US doing all the bombing and disproportionate killing, would it promote an increase in calls for the extermination of Americans or Russians?

[stylofone]

Something has to be said about the scale of things. Quantity has a quality all of its own.

While the 1000 civilians killed by Hamas are a war crime, so too are the 4600 + 1400 missing Palestinians.
When we are told this is just the beginning of satiating the thirst for revenge, then something more has to be recognised, and then said.

When there is a clear dehumanisation of Palestinians to the point of nothingness, except for the distaste of having to see crumpled children's bodies, that is not only dehumanising of Palestinians, it is also dehumanising of those inflicting the killing, Israelis. For a country which claims to be against anti-semitism, it is wantonly creating it.

Edit
Having said that it is important to acknowledge all the civilian victims suffering, for each one is an individual which did not have capacity to choose at the critical moment to not be in the war.

I understand the argument about quantity and quality, but I recoil at your words that Israel is "wantonly creating" anti-semitism. I think Israel's actions are creating global opposition and outrage, but throughout history, and in the present, anti-semitism is a pernicious form of hatred which seems to come from somewhere else, it's a higher form of prejudice and I don't think you can easily attribute it to those on the receiving end. Imagine if it was Russia or the US doing all the bombing and disproportionate killing in one of the many conflicts they've been involved in, would it promote an increase in calls for the extermination of Americans or Russians?

[Irrev-Black]

It's going to be increasingly difficult to get accurate news on Gaza.

Not only is there almost no power, but many journalists don't survive.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... di-sarraj/

[wadaye]

Something has to be said about the scale of things. Quantity has a quality all of its own.

While the 1000 civilians killed by Hamas are a war crime, so too are the 4600 + 1400 missing Palestinians.
When we are told this is just the beginning of satiating the thirst for revenge, then something more has to be recognised, and then said.

When there is a clear dehumanisation of Palestinians to the point of nothingness, except for the distaste of having to see crumpled children's bodies, that is not only dehumanising of Palestinians, it is also dehumanising of those inflicting the killing, Israelis. For a country which claims to be against anti-semitism, it is wantonly creating it.

Edit
Having said that it is important to acknowledge all the civilian victims suffering, for each one is an individual which did not have capacity to choose at the critical moment to not be in the war.

I understand the argument about quantity and quality, but I recoil at your words that Israel is "wantonly creating" anti-semitism. I think Israel's actions are creating global opposition and outrage, but throughout history, and in the present, anti-semitism is a pernicious form of hatred which seems to come from somewhere else, it's a higher form of prejudice and I don't think you can easily attribute it to those on the receiving end. Imagine if it was Russia or the US doing all the bombing and disproportionate killing in one of the many conflicts they've been involved in, would it promote an increase in calls for the extermination of Americans or Russians?

I agree and also recoil. But I can't go past the fact that devaluation of human life devalues all life. I should say this devalution is also inherent in settler colonial and enslavement exterminations the effects of which are not acknowledged to this day.

[Irrev-Black]

Re "Antisemitism" - it should be noted that the Palestinian people also qualify as "semitic" under that old biblical classification canard.

I'd sooner use "racism" and "hate speech" - no creationist crap there.

[wadaye]

But racism is used to individualise the pathology, when it is the collective pathology as ideology, even self justification,

[wadaye]

Collective racisms such as anti-black racism, anti-semitism including against Jews and/or Palestinians, are racism as ideology which is pervasive and infuses.

We should confront all such ideologies. Have to confront them in fact. Confronting only one doesn't even make sense. That's because by confronting only one it is also condoning the other.

[Irrev-Black]

Balance in reporting is very hard to find, but there is some explanation of how truth is unpicked from the many narrative threads offered, in last night's ABC Media Watch.

https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episo ... /103011298